What's on your mind?

The main forum where you can talk about the festival - from the line-ups to camping advice and everything in between. Also forum for generally chatting and talking about things.
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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:51 pm

:lol:

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enemies/friends
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:58 pm

mojo wrote: I'm no expert but it certainly seems like the EU have very little protocol in place with regard to processing and distributing refugees in an orderly and civilised way.
Is there not some protocol that the country they arrive in is where they are meant to stay/be processed. So if they arrive in Poland, Poland can't then lump them on to Ireland, or whatever.

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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:59 pm

enemies/friends wrote:
mojo wrote: I'm no expert but it certainly seems like the EU have very little protocol in place with regard to processing and distributing refugees in an orderly and civilised way.
Is there not some protocol that the country they arrive in is where they are meant to stay/be processed. So if they arrive in Poland, Poland can't then lump them on to Ireland, or whatever.
Yep. The Dublin regulation its called.

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mojo
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:26 pm

Its not really a fair system is it. Considering current migrant routes

had to listen to one of my work colleagues at lunch ranting and raving about how we shouldnt have to take any refugees...'theyre coming over here draining the system and doing no work. Being put up in hotels for years at the cost of the taxpayer. Infiltrating us and going to be building mosques and blow us us up. 'they can fuck off and starve for all i care'

just lovely

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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:30 pm

Imagine how horrible you'd have to be to not want to pay the miniscule extra bit of tax it takes to cover a few thousand refugees. That you'd rather they were just left to die than cost you what, a few quid a year?

I do worry about the spread of Islam though, its not a very nice ideology. Though we shouldn't get enough of them for it to be any sort of big deal.

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enemies/friends
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:35 pm

You'd hope the more accepting people are the more likely any refugees who come here are to integrate and thus not turn to the more extreme end of Islam or whatever.

How naive of me, probably.

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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:52 pm

I think eventually after a few generations they'll sort of have it educated out of them anyway. Its not really just the extremists I'd worry about though, its very conservative ideology of any peaceful, moderate Muslim who still believes in that stuff. We're just about starting to get past the old conservative Catholic stranglehold in this country but its still pretty close.

Biggy Shackleton
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:17 pm

Eucrid wrote:I think eventually after a few generations they'll sort of have it educated out of them anyway. Its not really just the extremists I'd worry about though, its very conservative ideology of any peaceful, moderate Muslim who still believes in that stuff. We're just about starting to get past the old conservative Catholic stranglehold in this country but its still pretty close.
That can't be a very big concern though, surely?
It's not ideal, and it wouldn't be my cup of tea either, no organised religion is for me, but least of all islam i think.... but it'd have no effect on me personally, and i can't see it having any major influence at a national level either.

The problem is though the whole conversation is being clouded by talk of religion. the issue is people fleeing from a very real threat on their lives, and are fleeing from people whose religious ideologies conflicts with their own, despite being on the same branch of faith.
Help them first, and worry about what god they pray to later.

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My Name Is Mud
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:30 pm

On a random note, Preacher (a truly amazing, incredibly fucked up adult comic book) has been commissioned to series by AMC with Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg as the men behind it. Should be epic hopefully.
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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:31 pm

I don't think it'd have any real impact here. In countries with larger Muslim populations already in place adding a huge amount could be an issue I think and deserves genuine consideration.

Biggy Shackleton
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:49 pm

Eucrid wrote:I don't think it'd have any real impact here. In countries with larger Muslim populations already in place adding a huge amount could be an issue I think and deserves genuine consideration.
Are we talking the spread of the muslim faith deserves consideration, even in conservative form, or the possibility of harbouring terrorists here?

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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:56 pm

Not necessarily terrorism but I can't think of many major Muslim populations in Europe where there aren't massive issues surrounding their presence. Obviously as you say its not a reason not to save people but there seems to be a naivety to just wanting to take as many possible with no thought of what happens after. You can't just accept them and then expect everything to be grand, they have a different culture and ideology and it really does clash with liberal western democracy.

Biggy Shackleton
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:11 pm

Eucrid wrote:Not necessarily terrorism but I can't think of many major Muslim populations in Europe where there aren't massive issues surrounding their presence. Obviously as you say its not a reason not to save people but there seems to be a naivety to just wanting to take as many possible with no thought of what happens after. You can't just accept them and then expect everything to be grand, they have a different culture and ideology and it really does clash with liberal western democracy.
True, but the immediate problems to be considered are the purely logisitcal ones... the same ones that would apply if it were 12,000 extra roman catholics who needed to be catered for, from some christian war-torn country.

Cultural and ideological clashes should be a little down the line. People who flee here, are either here reluctantly and will want to return to their homeland, in which case its a short term concern... or they are intending to stay long term. For the latter, fair play to them, but the laws of the land will apply same as they do to the catholic, protestant and muslim communities that are already here.

I just don't think the religious aspect should factor in the debate. It should be purely about what the capacity we have is, and coming up with a proper plan, with an exit strategy, and to avoid getting lost in the woods, like with Direct Provision.

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enemies/friends
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:30 pm

So the NI Assembly is going to be suspended again.

Woop dee doo.

Bunch of useless imbeciles.

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Eucrid
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:37 pm

Biggy Shackleton wrote:
Eucrid wrote:Not necessarily terrorism but I can't think of many major Muslim populations in Europe where there aren't massive issues surrounding their presence. Obviously as you say its not a reason not to save people but there seems to be a naivety to just wanting to take as many possible with no thought of what happens after. You can't just accept them and then expect everything to be grand, they have a different culture and ideology and it really does clash with liberal western democracy.
True, but the immediate problems to be considered are the purely logisitcal ones... the same ones that would apply if it were 12,000 extra roman catholics who needed to be catered for, from some christian war-torn country.

Cultural and ideological clashes should be a little down the line. People who flee here, are either here reluctantly and will want to return to their homeland, in which case its a short term concern... or they are intending to stay long term. For the latter, fair play to them, but the laws of the land will apply same as they do to the catholic, protestant and muslim communities that are already here.

I just don't think the religious aspect should factor in the debate. It should be purely about what the capacity we have is, and coming up with a proper plan, with an exit strategy, and to avoid getting lost in the woods, like with Direct Provision.
They should definitely factor into the debate but maybe not to the degree or in the tone that a lot of people are arguing with now. Its a consideration and its something I'd consider a major issue when you say we need a "proper plan". I think all aspects of that plan have to be seriously thought about now. Or maybe not really now cos we wont be taking that many anyway so its a little bit academic, but if we were to take 20,000-40,000 then its something that would need a major long term integration plan. With 4,000ish its not that big a deal at all.

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Phierstarter
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:04 pm

Eucrid wrote:Not necessarily terrorism but I can't think of many major Muslim populations in Europe where there aren't massive issues surrounding their presence. Obviously as you say its not a reason not to save people but there seems to be a naivety to just wanting to take as many possible with no thought of what happens after. You can't just accept them and then expect everything to be grand, they have a different culture and ideology and it really does clash with liberal western democracy.
Yeah, but so far we make the laws here.
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Phierstarter
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:35 pm

Zook wrote:i have to be honest.. i don't know whats going on at all

i'm not gonna pretend i do cos i really don't. am i really gonna be beheaded?
phpBB [video]
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fatguy2k1
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:34 am

My Name Is Mud wrote:On a random note, Preacher (a truly amazing, incredibly fucked up adult comic book) has been commissioned to series by AMC with Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg as the men behind it. Should be epic hopefully.
Seth and Evan look like they are real fans of the comic and have been trying to get this made for a few years. i hope to christ they don't f*%^ it up. Cautiously optimist about it.

Anyways, it's friday. this is good news. heading to dublin tomorrow for a friends 30th. been ages since i was up and even longer where i'll have time wander about the city for a bit too.

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Zook
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am

i made the nicest cup of tea there and i'm afraid i'll never get one the same ever again
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eric the beard
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:46 am

what type of tea was it zook

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